Curse

Sirius Bsns · Nov 01, 2010, 06:49 AM // 06:49

This idea would only add to further PvP inactivity. So if Anet actually wants to rid of the GW1 PvP community, then this is the perfect idea to make it happen! What better way to size down their servers than to give these "so-called" mods the ability to maliciously ban players at will until there's no one left to even play PvP anymore?

Balky · Nov 01, 2010, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

This idea would only add to further PvP inactivity. So if Anet actually wants to rid of the GW1 PvP community, then this is the perfect idea to make it happen! What better way to size down their servers than to give these "so-called" mods the ability to maliciously ban players at will until there's no one left to even play PvP anymore?

Please learn to read, NOWHERE does it say the mods would have the power to ban players, other than in posts like yours by people who haven`t taken the time to read what i`ve said properly.

*lemming* · Nov 01, 2010, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Honestly, letting players handle dealing with repeated leeching wouldn't be a bad idea, since the current system does absolutely nothing about it, and there's almost no subjectivity involved in it.

**Marty Silverblade** · Nov 01, 2010, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balky

Please learn to read, NOWHERE does it say the mods would have the power to ban players, other than in posts like yours by people who haven`t taken the time to read what i`ve said properly.

With all honesty this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balky

The most they would be able to do is remove someone from whichever pvp arena we`re talking about, Anet could possibly set that to impose a 24 hr PVP ban ( THATS PVP ONLY, GET THAT .....PVP ONLY ) after which player could go back into PVP with the opportunity to play properly, if caught leeching again, removal could then be set to a 3 day PVP ONLY ban ......come back and get caught again....7 DAY PVP ONLY ban.....come back and get caught and removed again .......that would trigger a permanent PVP only ban and raise a flag with ANET to consider banning the account completely.

is more or less the same as banning someone. Sure, it's PvP only, but on only the 4th leech they'd be perma PvP banned (which is more or less a complete ban for some people) and possibly completely banned depending on how harsh Anet is.

That said, I still think this idea as a whole is flawed. Sure, it'd be great if it worked, but I can't see that happening.

Balky · Nov 02, 2010, 07:56 PM // 19:56

It wouldn`t be mods who banned players, the removal would create the auto ban on PVP only, total account ban would be down to Anet , don`t forget the first thing you see when you log on, 3700 accounts banned for botting/leeching/game fixing....so the precedent is already there.

I`ve got a support ticket going right now, has over 60 screens of about 10 players repeatedly leeching in Jade Quarry, even have screens of one player admitting to it....guess what they`re still there leeching away, despite the ingame reports , the 60 screenshots.

Reverend Dr · Nov 03, 2010, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Did you know that when the /report system was first introduced Anet would take a large number of complaints in place of validation for the complaints?

This meant that if you faced the same team 3 times in a day and had every person on your team /report the same person on their team, that person would get a temp ban. Likewise if someone only got one /report, Anet would never bother to investigate.

While the system has changed a bit over the years, /report is asinine, and putting judge and jury control in the hands of players is moronic.

Balky · Nov 09, 2010, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Reporting doesn`t work.
The month long 80+ screenshot support ticket i have going hasn`t worked.
Anet is highly unlikely to dedicate staff to overview games.

So what does that leave us ?

It leaves the player base, or rather a section of it willing to give up some playing time to overview games and take some sort of immediate punitive action till Anet can review the game logs/video and decide on their course of action. Moronic..no...radical in terms of GW...possibly.

Mods would have to sign up to a CoC, abuse of which could get you banned. Seasoned experienced gamers could and would in my opinion do a very good job. 2/3 of the software required is already in place ( game logs/match recordings ) the rest of the software is already out there and has been used by various companies, EA for example.

Cool Name · Nov 09, 2010, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Why are you still going on about this?

Almost everyone else disagrees with you, and expecting Anet to introduce something like this with GW2 in development now is beyond optimistic. Forget about it and ignore the leechers. They really don't affect things that much. Yes you get them on your team in CM, but the other team gets them too. Even if you finally, somehow, managed to get Anet to agree to this you'd have wasted so much time talking about it, and not enough time playing the game and having fun. If you find it unplayable, which most people don't, then just stop playing CM and play one of the many other formats avaliable.

cantalus · Nov 09, 2010, 07:53 PM // 19:53

terrible idea, and what sorta thing would make a vol mod think that's a bot, hmmm? someone who can pb pb, how do you tell, you can't, it was luck or a bad but lucky bit of anticipation

you ban someone for 24 hours or so in the middle of a good run, or an important match, that person is proved by technical review to be honest, what happens

such a bad idea

and i don't trust anyone who seeks that sorta power over their fellow gamers

Skyy High · Nov 09, 2010, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balky

Ask the players in the arenas, they can all spot the bots, hell they manage to report them don`t they.

Yeaaaah...considering how many times I've had people call me a botter for DShotting a 1sec (or, Dwayna forbid, 3/4sec) cast spell, I think this would be a horrible idea.

Leeching? Yeah, I guess, it'd be nice to ban people for leeching, since that's eas(ier) to recognize. But, once you give someone the power to ban players for leeching, how exactly are you supposed to stop them from banning players for anything? Have ANet supervise them in real-time? That's basically asking ANet to have in-game GMs of their own, which probably isn't happening. Have ANet review all ban requests and act later? That's just a glorified /report system. Have the ban take effect immediately, but then let ANet be able to overturn it later? How are they supposed to compensate a player for a ban that they don't agree with? "Oops, sorry, the mod made a mistake"? How are they supposed to differentiate malicious bans from genuine mistakes of judgement?

It's a fact of psychology that the ones who would seek out power are the ones least likely to use it in a fair manner. I don't see how giving a bunch of ban-happy players who can't tell the difference between botting and good reflexes mod powers will benefit the game. Reporting works, or rather, it should work. Leechers lose their faction and get dishonor points, and enough dishonor gets them temp-banned. If players reported consistently, as a group, leechers would never work off their dishonor points, and their bans would get longer and longer. That doesn't happen, ergo, players are idiots and they don't /report when they should. It even tells you in chat how to do it every time you zone in...

C R A Y O L A · Nov 10, 2010, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balky

Reporting doesn`t work.
The month long 80+ screenshot support ticket i have going hasn`t worked.
Anet is highly unlikely to dedicate staff to overview games.

So what does that leave us ?

No offence but...
Really?
Of all the things going around ANet and GW at this point in time, you want them to implement a whole new system that revolves around other players policing other players.

Seriously?

Watch/read Spider-Man! There's a reason why the phrase "with great power comes great responsibility" is important. Honestly, mods have to be able to deal with other people in a clear, fair manner. Just by the way you handled yourself this entire thread, I don't think you're in any position to keep arguing your point on this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balky

The most they would be able to do is remove someone from whichever pvp arena we`re talking about, Anet could possibly set that to impose a 24 hr PVP ban ( THATS PVP ONLY, GET THAT .....PVP ONLY ) after which player could go back into PVP with the opportunity to play properly, if caught leeching again, removal could then be set to a 3 day PVP ONLY ban ......come back and get caught again....7 DAY PVP ONLY ban.....come back and get caught and removed again .......that would trigger a permanent PVP only ban and raise a flag with ANET to consider banning the account completely.

K, believe it or not, some people play PvP more often than PvE. A perma ban for something like leeching in RA is ridiculous. If I have to go pee, then I'm gonna go pee. I shouldn't have to go to the bathroom in fear of having my account banned by another PLAYER.
Oh yah, you're advocating that the players should have the influence to get someone banned.
It's the same thing man.
One player shouldn't be able to have that kind of power or influence over another player.
Anet and it's staff are the only ones that should be able to hold this kind of right to ban people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balky

As i`ve said already........any game in which a mods acts would be saved and able to be reviewed just like the top GVG matches are for example, not just by ANET but by the whole playing community.

Checks balances and a big stick, exactly what is needed.

Kk. What does this even mean? Are you talking about checks and balances?
If so, checks and balances can't work with your propsed system because we , as players, have no inherent power over the other actions of another player (besides the reporting system and complaints, in which, the proper Anet staff will deal with).
For c&b to work properly, you need parties that have some power over one another. What you're asking for is that some selected group of people have the right to kick someone out of a pvp arena and that person gets banned for 3 days or w.e. Read that sentence again and tell me it isn't morally wrong.

Sirius Bsns · Nov 17, 2010, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balky

Please learn to read, NOWHERE does it say the mods would have the power to ban players, other than in posts like yours by people who haven`t taken the time to read what i`ve said properly.

LOL. You just got pwned by Marty, so I won't even waste my time adding anything onto that one. Also, I'd rather have leavers and leechers over jerks spitefully keeping players they hate out of a game WE ALL ONCE PAYED TO PLAY. I'd much rather players just get with the program and solve their own little puzzles as to why others leave matches prematurely. If they bot or leech, that's a whole different story, one that you should point out to Anet with some in-game recordings. But as for leavers, they do so for a reason, and actually many have left over time because of the BS /report-abuse and Dishonorable Hex System. RA has shrunk down to 1-2 districts. It used to be 6-8 districts before this system was set in place. The Dishonorable Combatant and /report systems are responsible for driving away the playerbase, and you want to add further lemon juice and salt to the wound by empowering the already biased and abusive in-game players to control others?! Give me a f'ing break!

Balky · Nov 18, 2010, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

LOL. You just got pwned by Marty, so I won't even waste my time adding anything onto that one. Also, I'd rather have leavers and leechers over jerks spitefully keeping players they hate out of a game WE ALL ONCE PAYED TO PLAY. I'd much rather players just get with the program and solve their own little puzzles as to why others leave matches prematurely. If they bot or leech, that's a whole different story, one that you should point out to Anet with some in-game recordings. But as for leavers, they do so for a reason, and actually many have left over time because of the BS /report-abuse and Dishonorable Hex System. RA has shrunk down to 1-2 districts. It used to be 6-8 districts before this system was set in place. The Dishonorable Combatant and /report systems are responsible for driving away the playerbase, and you want to add further lemon juice and salt to the wound by empowering the already biased and abusive in-game players to control others?! Give me a f'ing break!

I think you`ll find the reason there`s less players in RA is because Anet banned 3700 accounts for botting, match fixing, leeching etc etc and it was because of them the report system and that dishonour hex came in , as for you not caring about players who constantly quit or leech in games, says it all really. THe fact you assume anyone who`d be willing to be a mod would do so only for spiteful reasons, well i think that says more about your character than anyone elses........." the treacherous are ever distrustful " there`s a quote for you !

Spookii · Nov 18, 2010, 04:02 AM // 04:02

It sounds like a good idea, but I think that it's one of those "Good in theory, bad in practice" ideas.

I've seen several games online that were moderated by volunteer players that were well-known in the community for being trust-worthy players and for the most part, didn't abuse their position. But those games were teeny-tiny in comparison to GuildWars (even browser based). Not to mention, GuildWars is a very competitive game and most of the PvP'ers are pretty competitive themselves. There's no "be nice to everyone!" rule on the internet. And a lot of people take advantage of that fact.

Unless I missed it somewhere, give us an example of a MMO of GuildWars' scale that has successfully implemented a system like this.

This sounds like you're wanting to introduce an idea used on a forum/small game into GuildWars, and the sad fact is that they're completely different platforms.

/notsigned

End · Nov 18, 2010, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balky

THe fact you assume anyone who`d be willing to be a mod would do so only for spiteful reasons, well i think that says more about your character than anyone elses........." the treacherous are ever distrustful " there`s a quote for you !

You have it backwards and if you were competent you'd see that. The argument isn't that every person who would do it is doing it for bad reasons. But bad people will be drawn to the extra power.

Take for example runescape. A friend of mine actually made a bot that looked for people pushing out messeges faster then was possible to type and reported them for using macros to type (a bannable offence on said game) the point of this was to get mod status within the game. And he managed to get Player mod status on 4 accounts. And thats not even volenteers thats the company inviting outstanding players.

Your idea is flawed in that bad people will always find there way to power.

Not that everyone in power is bad.

Please read and you'll notice we have been saying this all along and your being stupid and taking what we are saying to the extreme.
Like if I said I didn't like mint chocolate chip ice cream as much as I like rocky road and your claiming I said mint chocolate chip ice cream containted arsnic.

Balky · Nov 18, 2010, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by End

You have it backwards and if you were competent you'd see that. The argument isn't that every person who would do it is doing it for bad reasons. But bad people will be drawn to the extra power.

Take for example runescape. A friend of mine actually made a bot that looked for people pushing out messeges faster then was possible to type and reported them for using macros to type (a bannable offence on said game) the point of this was to get mod status within the game. And he managed to get Player mod status on 4 accounts. And thats not even volenteers thats the company inviting outstanding players.

Your idea is flawed in that bad people will always find there way to power.

Not that everyone in power is bad.

Please read and you'll notice we have been saying this all along and your being stupid and taking what we are saying to the extreme.
Like if I said I didn't like mint chocolate chip ice cream as much as I like rocky road and your claiming I said mint chocolate chip ice cream containted arsnic.

Actually a lot of the naysayers have been blindly assuming that anyone who would volunteer for this would be out to get other players , yes it`s possible that someone would abuse their position, but its just as likely that they won`t ! And thats why the games in which the mod interacted would be recorded and viewable just as in the GvG stuff.

Did you report your friend ? If not then you`re as guilty as him for breaking the rules.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spookii

It sounds like a good idea, but I think that it's one of those "Good in theory, bad in practice" ideas.

I've seen several games online that were moderated by volunteer players that were well-known in the community for being trust-worthy players and for the most part, didn't abuse their position. But those games were teeny-tiny in comparison to GuildWars (even browser based). Not to mention, GuildWars is a very competitive game and most of the PvP'ers are pretty competitive themselves. There's no "be nice to everyone!" rule on the internet. And a lot of people take advantage of that fact.

Unless I missed it somewhere, give us an example of a MMO of GuildWars' scale that has successfully implemented a system like this.

This sounds like you're wanting to introduce an idea used on a forum/small game into GuildWars, and the sad fact is that they're completely different platforms.

/notsigned

Actually EA used a very similar system back in the days of Red Alert 2 which was at the time the biggest game around, there were about 10 player mods who regularly played/policed games looking for players using the various hacks that were out for it at the time. I used to work on a site very similar to Guru back then, we worked alongside EA in working out how the hacks worked and which error codes etc they created when they activated the hacks or dumped games. Just because it hasn`t ( not totally sure it hasn`t mind ) been used in an MMO before, doesn`t mean it can`t be, man had never been in space but he got there didn`t he

End · Nov 18, 2010, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balky

Actually a lot of the naysayers have been blindly assuming that anyone who would volunteer for this would be out to get other players , yes it`s possible that someone would abuse their position, but its just as likely that they won`t ! And thats why the games in which the mod interacted would be recorded and viewable just as in the GvG stuff.

Did you report your friend ? If not then you`re as guilty as him for breaking the rules.

Yup I'm guilty oh noes.
You seem to not catch the ability of bad people to gain power and exploit power. All his actions were "reveiwed" by there staff as well. He went on a rampage getting multiple legit players who he had grudges against permanently banned.

Balky · Nov 18, 2010, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by End

Yup I'm guilty oh noes.
You seem to not catch the ability of bad people to gain power and exploit power. All his actions were "reveiwed" by there staff as well. He went on a rampage getting multiple legit players who he had grudges against permanently banned.

Didn`t i just say it was possible someone could abuse their position

You seem to not catch the ability of good people to do this and help their fellow gamers, because believe it or not they do exist.

End · Nov 18, 2010, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balky

Didn`t i just say it was possible someone could abuse their position

You seem to not catch the ability of good people to do this and help their fellow gamers, because believe it or not they do exist.

They do indeed. But they aren't a majority. And really how many people being falsly "banned from PvP" for a day is an acceptable amount? How many MAT's have to be RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed over by having the favorites backline "banned from PvP" for a day before it's to much. Theres a reason people don't have power. And thats because while yes some people may be all good about it...like I have pointed out in like every single one of my posts. Those that abuse it (especially those who are good at covering up their abuse) can be extremely detrimental to the plesure of everyone else.

Spookii · Nov 18, 2010, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balky

Actually EA used a very similar system back in the days of Red Alert 2 which was at the time the biggest game around, there were about 10 player mods who regularly played/policed games looking for players using the various hacks that were out for it at the time. I used to work on a site very similar to Guru back then, we worked alongside EA in working out how the hacks worked and which error codes etc they created when they activated the hacks or dumped games. Just because it hasn`t ( not totally sure it hasn`t mind ) been used in an MMO before, doesn`t mean it can`t be, man had never been in space but he got there didn`t he

Figuring out how hacks work isn't the same as moderating a game, no? I don't think there's anything stopping anyone if they want to try to figure out how the latest bots work, and then sending that information to ANet. Even if it turns out to be useless, I don't see how they would frown on you trying to help.

Red Alert 2 still doesn't seem like the same as GuildWars. Frankly, I wouldn't trust that many people from Guru to police the game. Not to mention, I think that saying you want people to police PvP matches for bots makes it a little unfair to PvE'ers. If you get mods for one half of the game, the other half needs player mods as well.

I'll throw you a bone and say that it would be nice to give some specially picked players the ability to "super report" what they see as potential illegal activity in either PvP or PvE. Reports that are maybe red-flagged for ANet to look at first (and investigate, not just 100% trust their word), since they're coming from trusted player moderators. But I don't think that any power as far as kicking from matches, auto-suspending, etc. should be given to players. Period.

And about us going into space, lol. I can see what you're trying to say, but this is a different matter. We know that we have the physical ability to create player moderators, but do we trust those people who we would assign as moderators? It'd be the same as if we had the technology to go into space, but no one competent enough to be an astronaut.